Why I Left the Christadelphians

Posted by: Steve on September 25, 2005 11:09 PM

Andrew,

I attempted to email "Mike Kragman" at the address in the email you posted. I wanted to know if that was a real name, and from your use of inverted commas I suspect you don't believe it is. It bounced - "undeliverable".

I have been attacked several times myself by anonymous people claiming to be Christadelphians but not using their real names. To attack someone in this way is cowardly in my opinion.

You are in my prayers.

With love in our Lord,
Steve

Posted by: Andrew McFarland on September 25, 2005 11:49 PM

Hi Steve,

I don't think "Mike Kragman" is is real name, no.

Posted by: Richard on September 26, 2005 12:58 AM

Hello Andrew, I am sorry that you have been hastled by someone who will not reveal his true name. To me that is being cowardly. However, to stop any inuendo it is up to you to make a clear unambiguous statement regarding your situation, and whether there is any truth in the acusations made about you. By being open in this matter will I am sure help both you and those who are concerned about your spiritual welfare.
With love in Jesus, Richard.

Posted by: Steve on September 26, 2005 01:16 AM

Andrew,

You said:

"I believe "Mike Kragman" is destroying the Christadelphian community ..."

I believe MK may be only one of many people who are destroying the Christadelphian community. In fact, I believe Christadelphia is on a path of self-destruction due to the fact that Christadelphianism has lost sight of what the Gospel is really all about.

With love in our Lord,
Steve

Posted by: Andrew McFarland on September 26, 2005 07:53 AM

Richard,

Why should I respond to any accusations made against me? Anybody who is prepared to think less of me because of people like Mike Kragman is clearly violating Matthew 18. Responding in the positive or negative just plays into his hands. I am a Christadelphian; I accept the BASF without reservation or ammendment. Nobody should need any more openness than that.

Posted by: Jonathan on September 26, 2005 12:15 PM

Hi Andrew,

Greeting in the name of Christ.

If, as you say, Kragman has failed to approach you in private before taking the issue before others, and if, as you imply, he did not approach you using his real identity, then I agree with you that his conduct is entirely unScriptural.

However, Matthew 5 does require that you adhere to a higher principle:

Matthew 5:
So then, if you bring your gift to the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother and then come and present your gift.

Regardless of his sin, it is up to you to attempt reconcilation.

Posted by: Andrew McFarland on September 26, 2005 12:49 PM

Jonathan,

I have attempted reconciliation.

Posted by: Len on September 26, 2005 09:09 PM

By publicly seeking support in this way, you put us in the position of supporting an ambiguous situation (at best) concerning homosexuality. If you are the publisher of the "gay Christadelphian" materials, then both you and Kragman should be disciplined quite firmly. If you are not, then only he should. While it's true that he should be dealt with in either case, you are (intentionally?) depriving us of the clarity required to judge the case fairly.

Posted by: Brian Morgan on September 26, 2005 09:26 PM

Hi, Andy! As one who has unintentially brought on himself the ire of (at least) one Christadelphian, a young hot-head in the USA, I can at least partially sympathise. However, as I can't possibly comment from a position of profound ignorance, I do need to know as much as you wish to tell me re. the circumstances of your departure, so I shall now - or as soon as I can get this new broadband system to work properly - download the rest of your stuff and digest it.

(I keep losing the line for some reason...)

Wish me success; at nearly 80 this computer lark is a steep learning curve!

LITL,

Brian.

Posted by: Linda on September 27, 2005 05:09 AM

You guys are not seeing the forest for the trees. Mike Kragman is out of order! Does he have any power or authority over Christadelphia???? NO! Can he ask Andrew to do anything? NO! But anyone can say anything they like! (ever been to a mental hospital??)

Mike Kragman does not reprresent Christadelphia...each brother or sister is on an equal basis, with Christ as their Lord. Why are you judgeing Christadelphia by the nuts who may (or may not) be a member?? (dare I remind you that Jesus didn't call the mighty, but the weak?) Have you guys lost sight of the fact that the heart is deceitful above anything else, and that every living human being is full of flesh and can't help but do some of the works of the flesh?????

Just say "NO" to off the wall requests! Aren't you guys all aware of the horrible things Israel did, and how long God tolerated their actions until there was no remedy but to destroy the nation...Long suffering...God is love and suffers long with idiot believer because He loves, and we are supposed to love sinners too.

This crazy Mike is a loose cannon, but don't let him be the cause of throwing the pearl of great price out because it's up a pig's snout. You give him too much power. He really doesn't have any power, the Christadelphian body is set up with no overlords.

Look...the bottom line is to Love your brother as yourself, and to love God. No matter how wicked crazy Mike is, don't throw in the towel and not treat him as your brother. If he is baptized, Christ died for him too, and remember, the bottom line is how you have loved...not condemned. Remember Christ died for sinners. You all are "works in progress" and you all are blasted sinners too.

Posted by: Philip Measures on September 30, 2005 07:18 PM

This 'Mike Cragman' is clearly not willing to identify himself and the email address he gives is not contactable.
That should be the end of the matter unless and until 'he' can act in an open and honest and scriptural manner.
Any merit in what he might be saying is lost unless correct paths are followed.